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Homeschool Unrefined

Nov 7, 2022

Join us as we talk all about quirky kids - what they are, what’s great about them and how we can encourage them.

Fall 2022 Season Sponsors


We are so grateful to our Fall 2022 Season Sponsors. Use the links below for their special offerings:


Blossom & Root and use code HSUnrefined15 for 15% off your purchase


Outschool and use code Unrefined for $20 off your first class 


Night Zookeeper for a 7-day, risk-free trial, as well as 50% off an annual subscription 



Maren: This American Life Episode #783: Kids These Days


Angela: I’m Glad My Mom Died by Jeanette McCurdy


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Complete Episode Transcript


[00:00:10] Maren: hi, we're Maren and Angela of homeschool, unrefined. Over the past 25 years, we've been friends, teachers, homeschool parents and podcasters. Together with our master's degree and 20 years combined homeschooling. We are here to rethink homeschooling, learning, and education with an inclusive and authentic lens.

[00:00:31] Angela: At Homeschool, Unrefined, we prioritize things like giving yourselves credit, building strong connections, respectful parenting, interest led playing and learning, learning differences, mental health, self care, and listening to and elevating lgbtq plus and bipo voices. 

[00:00:50] Maren: We are here to encourage and support you whether you are a new homeschooler, a veteran, you love curriculum, you're an unschooler. Whether all your kids are at [00:01:00] home, or all your kids are in school, or somewhere in between.

[00:01:03] Wherever you are on your journey, we're the voice in your head telling you, you're doing great, and so are 

[00:01:09] Angela: your. This is episode 1 99, Quirky Kids. We're gonna talk all about quirky kids and why that's a good thing and how to foster it, and then we are gonna end like we always do with our l t Ws Loving this week. 

[00:01:24] Maren: All right everyone. We wanted to give a big announcement. We have unlocked our Patreon class series, what we don't do, and we're so, so excited about it. So this is just for our Patreon Super Squad members. We do monthly live classes, and our new class series is called What We Don't Do The first class is sitting on for long for lessons and we just finished that class and it was really wonderful you, if you join our Patreon Super Squad today.

[00:01:52] You're going to get that class immediately. It's available. It was live, and you'll get it immediately. And then you'll continue to get [00:02:00] li one live class per month. And the recording of that class? 

[00:02:04] Angela: Yes. And the next class after that is about winter break. Mm-hmm. between 

[00:02:10] Maren: everybody will be thinking of probably in December. Important? Yes, definitely. 

[00:02:14] If you've listened to our 

[00:02:15] Angela: podcast, you know, we are passionate about outsourcing.

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[00:03:09] Maren: Angela and I both love creative ways to teach reading and writing, and that's why we're excited to introduce you to Night Zookeeper. Is your child a reluctant writer? Do they struggle with reading? If your answer to either of these questions is yes, the Night Zookeeper may be just what you're looking for.

[00:03:27] Night Zookeeper is an online learning program for children, ages six to 12 that uses a gamified and creative approach. To keep kids engaged and focused on developing awesome reading and writing skills, all while having fun at the same time. Some of the features we love include the educational games, the personalized feedback on writing from real tutors, and the super safe community page where children can work with each other and learn together.

[00:03:58] If Night Zookeeper sounds like the [00:04:00] perfect learning PR program for your child, you can try it for free by clicking on the link in the show. When you register, you'll get a seven day risk free trial as well as a huge 50% off annual subscription. That's a great deal if you ask me. 

[00:04:17] Angela: If you've been around a while, you know we are picky about curriculum and that's why we are excited to partner with Blossom and Rut.

[00:04:24] Blossom and Rut is a nature focused secular homeschool curriculum focusing on creativity, science, nature, literature, and the arts. Blossom and Rut has been gently encouraging and supporting homeschool families around the globe since 2016. Blossom. And Rhett currently offers curricula for pre-K through fifth grade with new levels being added in the.

[00:04:46] Additionally, a three volume inclusive US history curriculum told from a variety of viewpoints is currently in development as of August, 2022. Volume one is available for purchase and volume two is available on presale All [00:05:00] profits from this history curriculum. A River of Voices will be used to support storytellers and artists from historically excluded communities.

[00:05:07] You can find samples with scope and sequences and information about each of their levels online at Blossom and Rhett dot. You can also find them on Instagram at Blossom and Ru Blossom and Writ has created a special discount for our listeners. Use the code Hs. Unrefined 15 at checkout for 15% off your purchase.

[00:05:29] Maren: All right, Angela, let's dive into our main topic today, which is quirky kids. 

[00:05:34] Angela: Yeah. I'm excited to talk 

[00:05:35] Maren: about this. Very excited because I think, I think you and I agree, having quirky kids is one of the greatest. Things that could, I think, that could come out of homeschool. 

[00:05:46] Angela: What do you think? Yeah. Yes, for 

[00:05:48] Maren: sure.

[00:05:48] We love having quirky kids. I think they're a gift to the world. And it feels, it feels like, you know, you are really getting authenticity for [00:06:00] sure when you, when you see the corino come out of kids. People in general, 

[00:06:05] Angela: for sure. Right. Yeah. Let's talk about what quirky kids are, because I feel like this is a word that maybe gets thrown out a lot and people have different definitions.

[00:06:12] Right. But what we're talking about when we talk about quirky kids is kids who follow their interests Mm mm-hmm. and are confident in what they love. 

[00:06:21] Maren: Yeah. And they're really just, like you said, a confident and really just okay. Being themselves, like happy to be who they are. Mm-hmm. Accepting and accepting of other people too.

[00:06:33] I think it, it just kind of goes along with that as well. 

[00:06:36] Angela: For sure. For sure. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And they're not much paying attention to, you know, the out necessarily what other people are saying. They've got the they've got the freedom to follow their interests because they're homeschooling and they've got the freedom to just be gen, just be genuine and authentically who they are.

[00:06:57] Right? And I just think that is a real gift that [00:07:00] comes outta homeschooling. I mean, Obviously there are quirky cut kids who go to traditional school as well. Right. And I think that's great too. But I think in homeschool your, your quirkiness can really shine . I think it's safe in a way that it can't Yes.

[00:07:15] In 

[00:07:16] Maren: public school. Yes. Yeah. It's safe at home. I mean, it's safe to do it. I think there is a little bit, it feels a little bit unsafe when you're around people who maybe aren't as accept. 

[00:07:27] Angela: Right. All those, or you're afraid might judge you for your union 

[00:07:31] Maren: interest. Exactly. Exactly. Yes. And yeah, so we love that our kids show 

[00:07:37] Angela: their quirky side.

[00:07:38] Maren: And it could be maybe they're like super interested in something that they, and 

[00:07:43] Angela: they're, they show it up to everyone or or they 

[00:07:46] Maren: just get into it or they just get into it. And I think it's just like an unapologetic love for whatever. Yeah. I think that's so great. And this can en encompass, I think, neuro divergent and neurotypical kids.

[00:07:56] I think sometimes it, there's this label that it's a, [00:08:00] you know, maybe this, there's neuro divergence and I don't think that's always the case. I think a lot of times it's not. Yeah. 

[00:08:06] Angela: It can be, it, it is. I mean, I think a lot of neuro divergent kids are quirky for sure. But then so are a lot of neurotypical kids.

[00:08:13] Absolutely. 

[00:08:14] Maren: Absolutely. Yeah. So we're talking about all 

[00:08:17] Angela: kids for sure. So why do you think Marron, that it's good? Mm-hmm. to have quirky kids, especially when they're 

[00:08:26] Maren: younger. Okay. Let's start with when they're younger because I , I think kids. Into the habit when they're younger, they get into the habit of being themselves.

[00:08:35] Yes. It normalizes being unique. Mm-hmm. It celebrates being unique. Mm-hmm. . Being different and having different interests than your friends is the norm. It's just what? It's, it's life. . Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And I think once you get into that habit, and that's your reality when you're a kid mm-hmm. then growing up, it [00:09:00] feels a little, it feels a little 

[00:09:02] Angela: off if it's 

[00:09:03] Maren: not like that.

[00:09:04] And so I like that our kids grow up expecting that everybody's gonna be d. And you need, And I think it creates an acceptance of a variety, not just quirkiness, but I mean any kind of Yeah. Difference diversity. Mm-hmm. of any sort. Like there is just like this understanding that we are all different mm-hmm.

[00:09:26] and we appreciate 

[00:09:28] Angela: differences. Yes. And I really like that. I love that too. I think I think it's joyful to see kids when they are young. Being an old, but we're talking about young kids. Yeah. Being into what they're really into. I mean, it is, I don't know. I mean, I know that I've seen my own kids and other kids.

[00:09:47] Mm-hmm. excitedly. Tell me about the thing that they're into or excitedly tell whoever is willing to listen about the thing that they're into and that is So special at a young age and something that sometimes [00:10:00] gets squashed as kids get older. But you're right, if we can normalize it and expect it, Yeah.

[00:10:07] Then if they aren't doing that, maybe it will feel off to them. 

[00:10:11] Maren: I also, I also think, yes, like you said, it's, it's brings this joy, it spreads this joy, and that is like this love. Learning. I would, I would call it learning. Mm-hmm. , it's living, you know? Yeah, yeah. And it's contagious, I think. I think it's contagious.

[00:10:29] So when, when kids are cookie, they're just really in their zone or whatever, and they're spreading this joy, it's just that is priceless. And I don't know. Just having that experience is, is, is so powerful. It's so powerful. It's so good for us. It's good for us as adults to be influenced 

[00:10:46] Angela: by that . Oh yes, for sure.

[00:10:49] Because that is Well, I'll just speak for myself. Mm-hmm. , I mean, that has been, you know, what's the word? Like Kind of drummed out of me as I [00:11:00] as I age. Right. Okay. Yeah. , Go ahead. I mean, so like, I mean, at least when I was a kid mm-hmm. , there were a few categories of things that were acceptable to be interested in or that were presented as possible interest, you know?

[00:11:14] Right. Not that it was even acceptable or not, but that just like I knew about things I knew about that you could be interested in mm-hmm. . And so I don't know that I've really developed my quirkiness Yeah. Yeah. Until I've gotten older. Yep. Really. And like been okay. It's been okay with whatever it is.

[00:11:32] Yep. And so true calling things weird or different or guilty pleasures or whatever, I don't know, but just like accepting of who, what things you're really into. Well, 

[00:11:44] Maren: I think there is a point too, even now, like we, we know this, we know being, you know, having this quirkiness is so good and you, and we love the uniqueness, but I think what even today, like there is a.

[00:11:57] Quirkiness when kids are little. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . [00:12:00] And then at some point we 

[00:12:02] Angela: start to 

[00:12:04] Maren: not get excited about their quirkiness. Now we need to like, let's be done with all it in whatever, reign it in. And now you have to like kind of get in line a little bit. So why do you think it's, why, why is it good for older kids to also have 

[00:12:20] Angela: this quirkiness?

[00:12:21] Well, okay, I'm, I think because then they are, First of all, being themselves. I mean, that is so important that everybody feels comfort, comfortable being themselves, right? Yes. Liking what you like, liking, knowing what you're interested in. Mm-hmm. , I think just knowing the things that are exciting to you.

[00:12:40] Mm-hmm. knowing that when you're older, like let's say a teen I think is priceless. I think that's priceless. Because otherwise, You know, I just think it makes you more confident. I think it makes you know more about, and I hate to always make this the end goal, but like, what you [00:13:00] wanna do in the future.

[00:13:00] Mm-hmm. . And that's not the end goal, but you know, like yeah. What kind of job might be interesting to you? I think it's, it's easier. What kind of things do I wanna study? Do I wanna take classes about a certain thing? You know? I think it's easier. Be confident and know what those things are. Yes.

[00:13:17] Instead of being more lost. 

[00:13:19] Maren: Well, I wouldn't even say it, Angela. I don't think it's necessarily an end goal. I think what you're saying is just like we do spend a lot of time at our jobs , you know, when we're an adult. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, and it would be great to hone in on something that you. You know, is, is really in line with your values and your interests and your skills and, and your experiences and things like that.

[00:13:42] And it, it might not be permanent. You know, we know, we know that many people switch jobs 

[00:13:48] Angela: and careers throughout their, their lives. 

[00:13:50] Maren: So it's not necessarily 

[00:13:51] an 

[00:13:51] Angela: ending, but it is, like, there are, 

[00:13:53] Maren: you know, there's a, certainly a commitment level, you know, to jobs. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . So I think it's, we know, we [00:14:00] know how much, you know, our jobs.

[00:14:03] Have influenced us and, you know, affected us. And so it's so good to know to even get close closer Yeah. To something that you, you wanna do. Ah, it's so good. So just to, to have that self knowledge and awareness is so, so 

[00:14:20] Angela: key, right? Mm-hmm. . And I think, I think what I meant by. Not making it the end. Mm. It's just that like, I know so many adult, well mean well meaning adults.

[00:14:32] Mm-hmm. , you know, put pressure on kids from the time that they're little Yes. To, and asking them like, What do you wanna do when you grow up like this? 

[00:14:40] Maren: What do you wanna do with your life? Yeah. You know? Yeah. From kindergarten. Yes. What's, what do you wanna do? A job. 

[00:14:46] Angela: Yeah. Right. It's a lot. So so I guess that's what I meant.

[00:14:49] Yes. But you're right. I know. It is, it is important because your job is a lot of your life when you're older. So, 

[00:14:56] Maren: I mean, and, and when you are, when you're a teen, you [00:15:00] really are thinking about that. You know, it's not like Yeah. Not like a, you know, a far off thing, like from when you are in preschooler mm-hmm.

[00:15:07] it's like, no, I mean, this isn't a. I gotta think about this. Yeah. I should, I should be thinking and planning. Right? But I also think it affects your whole life in that way too. It's like you get to kind of curate this life that works best for you too. It's not even just doing what you like, but like having the habits that work best for the way your brain works.

[00:15:28] It's all so good, and 

[00:15:30] Angela: I think that knowing the way that you learn, knowing the way 

[00:15:32] Maren: that you learn, knowing the way you, that you organize, knowing the way that you know, you need to set up your, I don't know, set up your kitchen . They're just, or just set up your life. Set up your life friends. These are the type of friends that you know, help me thrive in my life.

[00:15:49] Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . These are some of the things that I just, you know, need to have in place. Those are all things that like, I think help when you are fostering this, you know, quirkiness in your kids. 

[00:15:59] Angela: For sure. [00:16:00] For sure. Yeah. I also think definitely. You know, in the teen years. Mm-hmm. friends are important.

[00:16:06] Peers are important, Yes. And I just think if, if your child is comfortable with themselves and with their unique interests and who they are, I think that has such a positive effect on the other kids around them. Absolutely. Do you see somebody being themselves? It is so inspiring. Yeah. It's, to me for sure, like I see somebody into something cool that I hadn't, you know, Thought about before or just being unapologetically themselves.

[00:16:36] Yeah. I feel so inspired to do that myself. Yes, yes, yes. So I think that's really, really key. And to find friends 

[00:16:45] Maren: who accept, accept each other for their quirkiness. . Right. That is, that's so, that's so key too. And that like, kind of goes back that we talked about how important it is, you know, it's how great it is that our kids are, you know, so unique and quirky when they're young, [00:17:00] so that when they're older they're like, Hey, like if there is a friendship that's happening and there isn't that acceptance or something's off, then they feel that they're like, This doesn't feel right because mm-hmm.

[00:17:09] I'm just, you know, I am, I am this person. If you don't like it, then that's, there's something. You're not accepting about me or whatever. And there can be dialogue about that, but it's good to understand. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. 

[00:17:21] Angela: So, So, okay. How do you think we should foster quirkiness in kids? 

[00:17:26] That's a big question.

[00:17:28] Yeah. I wanna say, first off, I think if you're homeschooling, if you're listening to this and you're homeschooling, I think you're already probably doing it. You know, I mean, I think homeschooling in and of itself is helpful in that way because everything is kind of personalized already, probably are you know, gearing things towards their interests.

[00:17:46] They probably have time to their interest. , they have time for the things that they're interested in. Yep. And so I think you're probably already doing it. 

[00:17:54] Maren: Yes. Yes. That is so true. Yeah. I was just gonna say, I think that was like, I think that's the [00:18:00] biggest thing that contributed, you know, for my kids is just time to be themselves.

[00:18:07] Time to play they way, the way they wanted to play and just 

[00:18:11] Angela: grow 

[00:18:12] Maren: their pretend world. You know, and, and without without constraint. 

[00:18:19] Angela: for so long, I hadn't thought about that, but time. Mm-hmm. , you're right, because kids when they're in school are so busy. They are so busy with school, you know, during the day and homework and then fitting in other activities.

[00:18:33] That, and family time and sleep and homework. Yes. It's just, it's hard to really develop your interests. When you're 

[00:18:40] Maren: in school and it's, Yes. And it's not just a practical thing. It's not, It's not just the time, but it, the time is communicating, I think, to the kids. Mm-hmm. , the most important thing for you to do is to do the things that the adults are telling you to do all day long, you know, or whatever.

[00:18:57] Mm-hmm. , that's the important thing. [00:19:00] Prioritize that. Yeah. Don't prioritize your own interests and who you are as a person. Mm-hmm. . And I think that that is a mistake. Yeah. We need to communicate with our time. Mm-hmm. our priorities. 

[00:19:14] Angela: Yes. And 

[00:19:15] Maren: so for our, you know, our priorities, for me, my priorities for our kids was to be themselves, be creative.

[00:19:24] Mm-hmm. , love learning. Mm-hmm. , enjoy the way they love learning, and be curious and just go down rabbit holes. And they did that. They did that. Yeah. And it was so good. I will say when my kids were younger and they were doing that, I, of course, You know, a wrestling match in my head every day. Like, Oh my gosh, we're not getting to all these other things.

[00:19:47] Angela: Yeah, we should be doing math, we should be doing reading or whatever. 

[00:19:50] Maren: Yes, we try every single day. Yeah, every single day. I remember honestly like standing in the middle of my living room looking around at just the [00:20:00] chaos or around me going, I'm never gonna be able to wrangle this in. Yeah. But, and, and then also thinking like, why do I think I need to.

[00:20:09] And so I don't know. 

[00:20:10] Angela: Now looking at wrestling, is that lately mm-hmm. , right? 

[00:20:13] Maren: Yes. And so looking back, I'm just so glad that a lot of the time I open the space up for that Right. Space and time for that. Right, 

[00:20:20] Angela: Right. So it's mostly encouraging those things that they're interested in instead of mm-hmm.

[00:20:26] You know, diminishing them or whatever. Yes. Instead of suggesting other things, instead of prioritizing other things. Really encouraging those things that they're interested in. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , whatever 

[00:20:35] Maren: that is. Yep. And then the other thing I think that's really important is to just own our own quirkiness.

[00:20:41] Like you said, Angela, you're learning about your own quirkiness right now. And, and like, Kind of growing into that, and I think that that's so good for our kids to see too. It 

[00:20:51] Angela: is definitely 

[00:20:52] Maren: a unique set of interests and 

[00:20:54] Angela: skills too. Right? And sharing that with your kids and sharing your own journey [00:21:00] in that way.

[00:21:00] Yes. And yeah, I think is really, really important because, you know, most things are about modeling and I mm-hmm. , I, mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. It is, like I said, because I'm kind of, I feel like late to the game in this way. Mm-hmm. , I mean, I've definitely always had interest, but you know, some things I felt embarrassed about or Mm.

[00:21:19] Kind of squashed, or like, I don't, actually, mostly it was like, I didn't feel like I had a wide variety of things to pick from for interest. It's like, well, do you wanna do a sport or music or both . Right, right, right. 

[00:21:32] Maren: You know? And there was a limited amount of music amount of those. Of both. Yeah. Yeah. So it was either, Volleyball, basketball or stop Yeah.

[00:21:41] For me, you know which of those three. 

[00:21:44] Angela: Yeah. Yeah. So I think learning about the, the world and just like how many options there are and like testing things out and I just, for me, that's like a lifelong practice and yes, [00:22:00] the sooner my kids can get started on. And finding their own joys, I just think the better off they're gonna be.

[00:22:06] And so I really do want to encourage and model that for them. For 

[00:22:11] Maren: sure. And even if, even if our kids do choose a very maybe traditional career, I think that's great. Yeah. And they can have. They will, I think, value interests outside of their job too, which is just so healthy and you know, having a way to, to balance 

[00:22:30] Angela: your life out.

[00:22:31] Having a full life that's having a full life more than just your job, but you also have other 

[00:22:35] Maren: Yes, exactly. Yeah, and you're right, like you said, example is so powerful just mm-hmm. . Watching your parents have those quirky interests is probably more powerful than anything else. Anything else, Right? For sure.

[00:22:50] What's your quirky thing? I don't know. I mean I, I'm, I'm kind of figuring that myself out too. I mean, I have a lot of, I have a lot of interests, you know, I love doing. A lot of [00:23:00] different things, but like recently, like I think I, I think I talked about this on Patreon, maybe not on the main podcast, but in our Facebook, you know, by nothing group, we, Oh, there was a free.

[00:23:12] Organ. Yeah. Somebody was giving away a free organ and I took it . Yeah. Right away. That's quirky. It's amazing. That is 

[00:23:20] Angela: quirky. I didn't think 

[00:23:21] Maren: about it at the time, but I was like, Oh, that was okay. I look back and I'm like, Yeah, that was pretty quirky. That's yeah, so, because I love, I love the 

[00:23:30] Angela: organ . Have you been playing it?

[00:23:33] A little bit. A little bit, Yeah. 

[00:23:34] Maren: And we're, you know, the kids are enjoying it a lot for sure. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. 

[00:23:39] Angela: All right, let's move on to our lt. Ws Loving this week, right? Yes. Yeah. Mar, what are you loving? 

[00:23:45] Maren: Okay. I am loving it's a podcast that I listen to all the time, this American Life. Oh, yeah. Which I know I, I talk about, I've, I've shared several episodes with you, Angela, lately, but this last 

[00:23:57] Angela: one.

[00:23:58] Okay, 

[00:23:58] Maren: let's hear. Everybody needs to [00:24:00] listen. It's number 783 Kids these days. Is what it's called. Oh, okay. And the description says, we hear from kids who are dealing with some of the country's most contentious debates. Oh. No debates that are supposedly about them. Mm. So it's just these kids who are caught in, you know, adult turmoil.

[00:24:24] For sure. Yeah. Basically. And I am, I mean, I know you all probably. You know, if you're listening to this podcast you know, have a heart for kids and are thinking about just the things that kids are dealing with these days, and this is these are just personal stories about those things and Okay, 

[00:24:41] Angela: everybody needs to listen to it.

[00:24:43] Okay. I would, I would love to listen to that. I'm gonna put that on my list in my queue. I'm gonna put it in my queue. Yep. Put it in your queue. Will appreciate it. Definitely. Okay. Thank you. Right. This American Life has been around for years before they had podcast apps and that's why they're on episode like 700 and something.

[00:24:59] That's [00:25:00] right's. It is like the first podcast. Yeah. Yeah. That's really well done. 

[00:25:03] Maren: So it's really well done and I think it's becoming a much more inclusive podcast, like the stories that they're sharing. Okay. I'm just really appreciating them. Noticing it more and more. Yeah. Yes. From the lens of many, many different people in the world.

[00:25:18] I'm right 

[00:25:19] Angela: in America, . That's great. That's great. All right, Angela, what are you loving this week? Okay. I am loving a book that this could be the book, like if you are in a slump, if you don't know if you like audio books. Okay. Or, you know, you've never tried or wonder if you could get hooked. I think this could be your book.

[00:25:41] It's called, I'm Glad My Mom Died by Jeanette McCarty. Okay. Yes, I've heard of this book. We've heard of this book. Yes. Okay, so this is a memoir. But it's very it'll take you in right away. So Jeanette McCarty is a young actress. She's probably 30 now. Okay. [00:26:00] She was on I, Carly. Oh yes. A Nickelodeon. As a young, as a young child. Mm-hmm. . And this is just her life story, which is pretty traumatic. You know, she didn't want to go into acting, but her mom wanted her to, cuz it was her mom's dream that her mom.

[00:26:19] Got fulfilled for herself. Mm-hmm. . So her mom put, you know, pushed her into acting and Jeanette wanted to please her mother because she loves her mother. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . it is about that relationship and it is about her, you know, life in the spotlight and with her mother. and with her brothers and her mom is sick the whole time.

[00:26:40] Mm-hmm. , I mean, it's in the title. I'm glad my mom died, so, you know, her mom dies, but no, spoil mom was sick. Yeah, no spoiler. Her mom is sick, you know, for much of her childhood. Mm. And so there's always kind of the threat of like, is her mom gonna die? And so she wants to really please her mom. So anyways, it is so well written.

[00:26:59] Wow. [00:27:00] It is so well written. The audio is amazing. She reads it. By the, the first sentence, , you know, for the first story I was hooked. I was like, I need listening to this. So I think, you know, as a parent too mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . It definitely It's just a, it's just a cautious, a cautionary tale, you know?

[00:27:18] Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a cautionary tale as a parent. Mm-hmm. , not that I'm like her mom, but you know, I just recognize just some behaviors or practices and I, I like, I, you know, am constantly thinking like, Oh, I do not wanna do that, or I would never wanna say that, or, or whatever. So, I don't know. I just think as a parent, it was really, It was important as a child that was imp It was important.

[00:27:40] It's important for everybody. So yes, really well done. 

[00:27:43] Maren: Okay, 

[00:27:44] Angela: So you should listen, I think you should just get it on Libro fm, which I talked about a few weeks ago. Yes, it's a, or the library. Get it on your library, but listen on audio for sure. 

[00:27:56] Maren: All right. Thank you Angela. And thank you to our three [00:28:00] sponsors, Blossom and Root Out School and Night Zookeeper.

[00:28:04] Be sure to check out their links in our show notes. 

[00:28:08] Angela: This podcast is created and hosted by Angela Se and Marron Gors. We are listener supported. To get extra content and the Back to School Summit free with your membership, go to unrefined. Subscribe to our newsletter and get our free top 100 inclusive slash newsletter.

[00:28:29] You can find on Instagram at unrefined and at always learning with you can find Angela. Unrefined, Angela. [00:29:00]